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Post by The Curmudgeon on Aug 12, 2012 2:50:30 GMT 2
Well, this will be my last message for TWO whole weeks, kids. Because me and Mrs C are jetting off for some sunshine, and let me tell ya - I fucking deserve it. So be good in being bad while I'm away, y'hear?
Anyway, take the above title as a sad farewell to one of my favourite bands of the last few years (that would be Does it Offend You, Yeah?) who have now gone the way of the dodo. A damn shame.
So there's been a bit of an online shitstorm brewing in the UK over the last week or two, thanks to a campaign on Facebook and Twitter to ban a Facebook page called "Dead Baby Jokes." I don't need to tell you exactly what the page is about, but needless to say, there has been a LOT of upset people because of it, so much so it even made the news.
Now, this upset ranged from "that's horrible, take it off the site" to "they are obviously pedophiles" (yeah, OBVIOUSLY), and "they have pictures of dead babies on there" (no, of course they don't).
What it basically boiled down to is this; one person saw the FB page (a collection of sick jokes) and complained, someone else heard about it and complained to 5 other people and .. well, you know the score. Before you know it, the sick joke page is a child porn ring run by baby murderers.
So there's talk to ban it, to remove it from Facebook and to possibly prosecute those behind it. When, really, all the page actually is is some stupid kids telling mean jokes, something that has been happening since time began, and will continue to do so.
There's been questions asked of WHY Facebook would allow such a site, and pesky little things like freedom of speech and not actually breaking any laws don't really come into it, because, oh, my best friend lost her child and this site is evil. That's pretty much the entire argument from every single person, and if you try and say that, yes, the jokes are of bad taste but.. y'know, you don't have to read them if you don't want to then you're pretty much in league with the devil.
For the record, I was never a member of any site telling jokes about dead babies, but banning it would be a severe turn in the wrong direction. What comes after that? What else gets banned because people happen to find it offensive (which seems to happen a fucking LOT nowadays).
Thing is, there are things online I don't want to see or read, and as a result I don't go looking for them. They still exist, but they don't affect or upset me because I look at what I choose to look at. I find the hatred that spews from KKK and BNP website personally offensive, but I don't ask for it to be banned or removed.
What's everyone else's take on this? To ban or not to ban?
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Post by trashcanman on Aug 12, 2012 11:46:40 GMT 2
My opinion on this stuff is well documented on this site and elsewhere. If you don't fucking like it, don't fucking go looking for it. Dead baby jokes are unlikely to find you online if you don't go looking for them. 4chan was taking responsibility for this a week or so ago and was trolling folks about it and posting the screencaps in a thread for lulz. One person made the mistake of posting a picture of their child's coffin on the page which only encouraged an anon to caption said photo with something like "there's totally a dead baby in there LOL". Taking on the internet's seedy underbelly is a task for suicidal fools. And I have no patience for these assholes who gave to actively seek out things to offend themselves with so they can attempt to get it banned or just wag their fingers at somebody else. Fuck these scumbags who are too stupid to realize that the offense they take is the entire premise and source of the joke's humor.  |
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lemex
All Messed Up
Posts: 110
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Post by lemex on Aug 12, 2012 11:48:52 GMT 2
Defiantly not to ban here - I'm well aware of this recently controversy.
Now, I should say I don't find dead baby jokes funny in the slightest, and I'm not really a fan of controversial humor, but does that mean because I personally don't like it it shouldn't be on Facebook? Of course not. That group has the tag '(controversial humor)' and that really should be enough. I really don't see this whole idea 'I don't like it, it must disappear!' and often, as you point out, the 'haters' resort to name-calling and I've seen death threats I'm sure are rhetorical, but since it's the internet you can't take that chance really.
If I censored the things I personally find distasteful, I might be happy, but someone else will not, and I don't have the right to tell other people to not look at something if they want to see it. If a friend really wanted to go and see Lady Gaga for instance, as much as I might want to I have absolutely no right to block the doors on them, to take their car keys so they can't drive to the venue.
If you don't like something then just ignore it (Facebook has a blocking system for this reason) but in every day life, just walk on, don't give it any more attention. It is as simple as that with me.
When I see people condemning homosexuality, or saying someone who thinks differently is 'mentally sick', or calling atheists like myself evil I do honestly find myself a little offended by it, but I don't make a thing of it. I don't let it bother me and I don't understand why this is so hard for others.
Edit: There is a great joke by Samuel Johnson, after he had compiled the first English Dictionary he attended a party in which two ladies approached him.
'Dr. Johnson,' they said, 'We congratulate you on not putting any rude words in your Dictionary'.
'Ladies,' said he, 'I congratulate you on being able to look them up!'
Anyone who gets that joke will get the point.
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Post by trashcanman on Aug 12, 2012 20:59:35 GMT 2
Number of people killed by impolite humor: 0.
Number of people killed by unchecked religion: more than could ever be counted.
Ban religious pages on Facebook, anyone? I mean, the symbol of Christianity is a torture device used to execute people in he slowest possible way and in Catholicism it often has the actual dude strung up on it, yes? Why is that violence and gore allowed? I propose we found the United Church of Dead Babies and go legit with this. Then we can shove the image of the babies that died for our sins in everybody's faces and be considered righteous for it.
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lemex
All Messed Up
Posts: 110
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Post by lemex on Aug 12, 2012 22:49:52 GMT 2
^I say we should go for it. I'm a Libertarian, to me nothing is more sacred than Freedom, and freedom of speech is to me something unconditional. Ether everyone can say what they like (if I like it or not) or no one has the right to say anything.
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Quillford
Bad Witch
"You're Scheming On A Thing That's A Mirage. I'm Trying To Tell You Now, It's Sabotage!"
Posts: 238
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Post by Quillford on Aug 13, 2012 2:17:17 GMT 2
If it makes it worse these people who are hating on fans of the jokes have actually made a page releasing photos and locations and work addresses of the fans of the page... unbelieveable
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lemex
All Messed Up
Posts: 110
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Post by lemex on Aug 13, 2012 10:43:04 GMT 2
If it makes it worse these people who are hating on fans of the jokes have actually made a page releasing photos and locations and work addresses of the fans of the page... unbelieveable I know me and you were in the trenches a bit, fighting it when this came up; me, you, and one of my university friends. I'm happy to tell you: we have won. It appears that page has been removed from Facebook. I don't know, but I hope the guy who made it will also see a visit from the police. What I really am nervous about, for the people attacking the DBJ page, is this: 4chan know, and anonymous is watching. Just before I went to sleep last night I seen on that 'name and shame page' the visitors section flooded with joke pictures which usually means 4chan. I really hope I'm wrong in this but, it looks like some people are about to find out why you shouldn't piss them off. |
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Post by trashcanman on Aug 13, 2012 20:35:31 GMT 2
I lurk on 4chan almost daily and have watched them work on people and I can tell you that getting on the wrong side of these people is not a good idea in general. They are immensely efficient at doing online harm to people. Google Jessi Slaughter and Boxxy for two examples of people who literally fled the entire internet to escape the wrath of /b/. And then there was this quick little slice of "fuck you" to a potential child molester.  And then there is this poor soul: chanarchive.org/content/1_b/386280356/1331501131763.jpgSo yeah, anonymity is a relative term. Put yourself and your stupidity out there enough and they can find you. I just checked to see if there is a thread right now about this, and it appears if they had a shitstorm, I missed it. They seldom archive threads involving hacking for obvious reasons and the board moves so fast that if you aren't on while it's going down, you missed the fun, which is part of the addictiveness of the site. I'm not on Facebook for a great many reasons and probably never will be so I haven't been able to participate in this and part of the reason I don't do FB is that if my family saw me trolling idiots and defending dead baby jokes they are not bright enough to understand the argument and it would cause me problems IRL, which I'd naturally like to avoid. Good job helping getting that hateful bullshit stomped out. How sweet would it be to have some idiot get himself arrested because he was butthurt over some tasteless jokes? REAL sweet. |
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lemex
All Messed Up
Posts: 110
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Post by lemex on Aug 14, 2012 14:25:19 GMT 2
Those two things ... literally the worst things I've ever read. |
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Post by trashcanman on Aug 14, 2012 20:33:52 GMT 2
You may want to steer clear of that site, than, because people are super fucked-up there. Hard to separate the trolls from the legit psychos, but most people on 4chan are either one or the other.
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lemex
All Messed Up
Posts: 110
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Post by lemex on Aug 14, 2012 22:45:20 GMT 2
Yeah, I don't visit 4chan at all. Partly because I don't know the site and partly because it scares me. But returning to the topic of DBJ: I've not been active in the whole controversy since helping get that name-and-shame page shut down, but I have a feeling the whole thing lost a lot of steam after that.
Edit: Against DBJ anyway, been out of what's happening for some time. Now there is some 'Cancer is funny because people die' page on Facebook too that I am quite sickened by. Does this deserve to be banned? No. To me free speech is unconditional and this, though in even worse taste, is still not breaking the law. I don't want anything more to do with this sort of thing, and to be honest this new page is a pretty obvious troll.
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Post by trashcanman on Aug 17, 2012 3:16:17 GMT 2
4chan is bad news for the children. Just ask Oprah: Over 9000!  Now where have I heard that before?   |
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Quillford
Bad Witch
"You're Scheming On A Thing That's A Mirage. I'm Trying To Tell You Now, It's Sabotage!"
Posts: 238
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Post by Quillford on Aug 21, 2012 11:50:17 GMT 2
Oh TCM I had a chuckle and a half - thats my calling card - over 9000 - anywho, 4 Chan is one evil place. I avoid it where possible. The good does not out weigh the evil. But I can appreciate you posting the good TCM  thank you. |
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Post by trashcanman on Aug 21, 2012 20:14:52 GMT 2
There's tons of awesomely funny material to mine from that place, but it is decidedly evil. I see way more furry porn and "trap" (chicks with dicks) threads than I am comfortable with, although as far as the pranking and "life-ruining" goes they tend to target people who fucking deserve it so I stick with them.
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Post by The Curmudgeon on Aug 28, 2012 12:21:17 GMT 2
I have returned. And honestly, I'm gone for two weeks and what do I find? Threads and topics about 9000 pedophile dicks and fucking dogs. You guys make me SICK.
My main problem with 4chan, and I have been on there a few times, is I find it so fucking hard to follow. Like, that entire dog conversation I was reading I was like "so.. wait, who's talking now? Who did what?" I know, I know. I'm such a noob.
Anyway, glad to see I'm not the only one out there that says, unless they're breaking the law like kiddie porn or snuff films or anything like that, they should be there. For example, my mother goes on the internet and I can pretty much guarantee she will never see any of the stuff we just talked about. Unless she goes looking for it. Which.... ewww.
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thank you.
