The TRUTH about 9-11-01.

[trashcanman]

Well, it seems like we have one of these threads almost every year in spite of how fucking goddamn tired I am of this "NEVER FERGIT!" shit regarding the American national holiday known as September Eleventh and the pity porn celebration that goes on every news station and online media outlet annually on that date. We've discussed in the past the various conspiracy theories and general weirdness surrounding the original event, and Wikileaks has shown us that the civilian death toll in Iraq alone is six figures while we pretend to cry our eyes out over the deaths of a couple thousand (less than 1/50th of the death and an even smaller fraction of the destruction we've caused in a single country since), but there is still so much to learn from the destruction of the World Trade Center. For example, new evidence has arisen that prove once and for all that the 9-11 crash footage was faked and that the attack on the Twin Towers was in fact an inside job. One carried out by a REAL AMERICAN. Ladies and gentlemen of The Fortress, I give you photographic evidence that proves that the government was lying about 9-11:



and he had an accomplice:

[The Curmudgeon]

DAMN YOU, YOU HULKAMANIAC! YOU BLEW IT UP! DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!

Alas, the second one, of that red drink thing, will be lost on anyone outside the US. We don't get that little guy over here. I've seen him on a couple of things (Family Guy once, if memory serves) but - pass. The power of Hulkamania is, of course, universal.

Facebook was awash with hokey fake sentiment and illiterate messages of "condolence". What I don't get, and what I said on FB, is why do people put "RIP to the people of 9/11" and then show pictures of the towers collapsing? It's like writing to your friend and saying you were sorry to hear about his dead wife, and then showing him a picture of her rotting corpse. Y'know, just in case he didn't know what you were referring to.

One image, for better or worse, that stood out to me is this one, and it actually took me a couple of minutes before I fully understood it.



A racist slur, a conspiracy theory AND a Star Wars reference? Holy shit. Take THAT, internet.

As for what really happened.. I dunno. 90% of me thinks what happened happened, but when you start digging into those details it all does become a bit clouded. It's easy to be swayed by the dramatic music and shadowy images of Youtube conspiracy theory clips, so I try to avoid that but.. I dunno, man. I guess we'll never fully know. It's one theory that's never going away, that's for sure.

[trashcanman]

Ah man, Kool-Aid Man is a classic advertising mascot.



Also, your image isn't showing, C. Seriously though, the wider view you take of this whole thing, the more disturbing the number of bizarre coincidences and the subsequent actions of our government become. Particularly when you consider members of the Mossad were found with a truck full of explosives videoing the WTC before (and during) the attacks and were seen cheering after the planes hit. The mainstream media widely reported that the "Middle Eastern men" were reported and arrested at the site, but the story was never heard from again inside the US. Only outside news sources bothered identifying them after they were mysteriously released. So many of the conspiracy theorists are idiots, though. They focus on false or iffy info and unprovable hypotheses rather than the multitude of verifiable facts to try and make their point. I know this sounds like Conspiracy Keanu or something, but it makes me wonder if the government doesn't send these morons out there to discredit the dissent with false information.

1We may know the real truth at some point in the far future. Some years back, the Federal Archives declassified some WWII documents, one of which as much as proves that FDR's plan was to force Japan into attacking Pearl Harbor. But nobody cared. If it ain't reported on television, it ain't happened as far as the American public sees it. To paraphrase the Dead Kennedys: In 50 years or so they'll leak the truth, but by then it's only so much paper. A simple document cannot stand against decades of tradition in people's minds.

[Ben]

Forgive me for rolling my eyes at you ever so slightly, Trashcanman, but civilians were dying in large numbers in Iraq long before we showed up. Even so, I'm not sure why people aren't allowed to get upset over the WTC deaths just because MORE people have been dying elsewhere.

Also, I've been studying history at school for 3 years now with a particular interest in imperial Japan, and I assure you the "evidence" you're talking about regarding FDR inviting an attack from Japan is questionable at best. He was too arrogant to think they'd attack us (as were many others), but there was no conspiracy. Similarly, I've never seen a shred of evidence that's made me question who's behind the WTC attacks.

[trashcanman]

What we see an what is there are not always the same thing and what we question is entirely up to ourselves and based on what we want to believe, which is usually sunshine, rainbows, crying bald eagles, and the like. I was here to goof off rather than have this tired debate again, but if you are interested in some actual light research rather than relying on closing your eyes and telling me what you haven''t seen or parroting things you've heard other people say I would suggest you loo into the McCollum Memo (from our own National Archives)

en.wikisource.org/wiki/McCollum_memorandum

After this document reached home, 9. A-H were systematically carried out, but surely that was all a massive coincidence. Save an eye roll for me, my friend.

Then have a look a this webpage (click on the numbers in parentheses for sources from multiple worldwide news sources).

whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html

If that doesn't make you question anything, than you are doing critical thinking wrong. This shit is so very, very easy to find and corroborate in this day and age.

"The teacher stands in front of the class
But the lesson plan he can't recall
The student's eyes don't perceive the lies
Bouncing off every fucking wall
His composure is well kept
I guess he fears playing the fool
The complacent students sit and listen to some of that
Bullshit that he learned in school"
-RATM

[Ben]

Your unnecessary rudeness aside, I don't know why you think the McCollum memo is proof of a Pearl Harbor conspiracy, especially given the date it was authored. We were preparing for war long before the attack, yes. Not because there was a conspiracy, as you claim, but because it's what countries do when situations get tense. I'm looking at a joint memorandum to Pres. Roosevelt dated Nov. 5, 1941 right now from the Chief of Naval Operations and George Marshall in which they say we're not ready for war yet and that we need to avoid any hostilities. There was no conspiracy, Trashcanman; we weren't ready to go to war when Japan attacked us. If FDR had really orchestrated it he would have waited 6 months so we could strike back immediately and with force. What's more, he wouldn't have invited Japan to whoop the shit out of our entire fleet. More likely would be a Gulf of Tonkin type of event. You know, invite a Japanese sub to torpedo a single destroyer or something. What you're claiming doesn't even make sense. Look, I could write pages about this stuff and talk circles around you when it comes to World War II history, if that's what you want. I've been reading about it since I was 7 and I've been studying it at college every day for 3 years. Some of my professors have even discussed this very topic. No Pearl Harbor conspiracy exists, and any historian who interprets historical documents responsibly realizes this.

I've seen your WTC link before as well. Rereading it, it raises an eyebrow but nothing more. The "evidence" is entirely circumstantial. If that site had actually exposed "what really happened" the government would have shut it down immediately. Come on, now! You don't ACTUALLY believe the CIA is just going to leave all that damning evidence up for the public to see it, do you?! Well shoot. Maybe that's not "what really happened."

[The Curmudgeon]

Wow, who'd have thought a conversation about 9/11 would lead to an argument? Who could have seen that happening?

OK guys, the whole point of this place has always been to keep bickering and flame-wars etc OUT of here, especially between two of it's main members. I'm all for a serious conversation and debate, which this still is, but let's not go getting all pissy, OK?


How does a thread showing Hulk Hogan destroying the Twin Towers turn into an argument, anyway? You crazy Hulkamaniacs.

[trashcanman]

I wasn't really trying to be rude, Ben, so don't take it like that. I just like to add a little spice to the conversation so to speak. Any number of formalized credentials mean nothing to me as university study is primarily centered around doing as/repeating what you are told and outside opinions are typically shouted down. Shit, some of the stupidest people I know are the ones who spent the most time in college. Note also, I'm not saying any of this is proof positive, but it is as you said eyebrow raising. I'm not a big fan of simply chalking everything up to coincidence and I think talking in absolutes like "9-l1 WAS AN INSIDE JOB" or "THERE WAS NO CONSPIRACY" is essentially begging objective critical thinkers to dismiss you as someone who thinks shouting louder is better than presenting facts. I'll let it go at that since we seem to be upsetting our polite European host. Later, all.

[Ben]

Fair enough, though I'd like to close by pointing out history is almost unique in that hundreds of thousands of sources are available for a person to explore and form his own conclusion. What I do (soon for a living) is a far cry from simply repeating what I've been told.

Also, uh, sorry Curmudgeon...

*hangs head*

[trashcanman]

Hold that head up high, homie. This is what makes the world go around. I am sorry we went all American on your site, though, C. For somebody who hates politics and particularly political discourse as much as I do, I do let myself get pulled into it too easily.

[The Curmudgeon]

As Mr Wolf once said, "let's not go sucking each other dick's just yet."

Apologies not necessary, gentlemen. Heated, intelligent conversation is all good, here. We don't need to agree on everything, I just didn't want it turning, y'know, "bad." We save that shit for everywhere else online. We come here to get away from it, remember?

[trashcanman]

I think my manner of speech in general may be what some people consider "bad" judging by the reactions I sometimes get, but I seldom intentionally insult somebody on a personal level even if they do it to me so you don't have to worry about that. I was watching "Misfits" the other day (awesome show which you rec'ed to me, I believe) and somebody pointed out that Nathan (the sarcastic Irish troll kid) talks to people the way he does because he doesn't mind being insulted, but it isn't the same for other people. I guess that's kind of like me.