How far is TOO far?

[The Curmudgeon]

OK, this is a wrestling inspired thread, but stick with it, because this will go down in history as one of THE most controversial moments in years.

Short catch-up first. Legendary wrestling figure The Undertaker has an unbeaten at Wrestlemania record of 20-0. For twenty years he's faced all comers and never lost. Over the last few years, the focus has not been "I'm fighting you because I don't like you" it's been to go down in history as the man who Ended the Streak.

This year? A guy who's been mentioned on here more than once, CM Punk. Now, this all started off fairly normally, Punk saying he's the Best Wrestler in the World (tm) and he was the man to end the streak. Nothing too noteworthy there.

But then, Undertaker's long term manager, right from his debut, Paul Bearer, sadly passed away.



So what do you do? After the touching tribute video package, what happens? Do you move on, not mention it again or do you bring it into the storyline to add heat to the fire? Duh, it's wrestling. What do YOU think?

So for the last few weeks, Punk has tried to "get into the Undertaker's head" by continually mocking the memory of Paul Bearer, mimicking his trademark high voice, juggling with his (stolen) urn. Some people said it was disrespectful and in poor taste, but behind the scenes the WWE had contacted Paul Bearer's family and had the entire thing OK'd.

Then, last night, the final Raw before their Wrestlemania match... well, this happened. (Skip to 01:40 to miss out Undertaker's "Grr, I'm angry" speech).

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTSEjkY6kc

So, getting another guy to do an uncanny impersonation of Paul Bearer and then emptying Bearer's ashes onto the Undertaker was seen, by many, to be just going too damn far. Including, uh-oh, Paul's family.



So what's your take? Is everything OK in wrestling because it's fake anyway? There was no such person as "Paul Bearer", CM Punk wasn't mocking "William Moody" the actor, he was mocking a guy who didn't actually exist.

I'd like to think that an old pro like Paul Bearer would have been fine with anything like that. It's all about getting the butts in the seats, after all, and now people will surely pay to see the Undertaker destroy Punk? The fact I'm discussing this now, the fact Mrs C heard people talking about it at her work and I couldn't get through the 1000 Facebook rants about it, the week before the WWE's biggest PPV of the year, shows that, well, there's no such thing as bad publicity.

I think, possibly, his son's main problem with the segment, unless everyone went wildly off script that they had approved beforehand, was the fact that 90% of the audience were cheering CM Punk during that whole bit, but Punk has now reached that status where a vast majority of the audience just won't boo him no matter how "evil" he is.

If it were me, and I had been asked before hand about watching someone dress up as my dead dad and then pour his ashes out onto someone, I would have passed on watching it. OK, it's part and nature of the business but I would just watch something else that day.

What do you think? Too far? Just TV? There needs to be a line?

[trashcanman]

Oh god, the gregorian chanting and blue clouds were freakin' insane right off the bat. And that guy shouting "you suuuuck!" was too perfect. But yeah, I am of the opinion that Paul Bearer was a fictional character played by an actor. I remember that guy from way back in the day and have impersonated him for kicks many times. It sucks that he passed away, but I really don't see the issue with the segment. Wrestling has always been about being utterly over-the-top and wild and so long as those weren't the actual man's ashes, it's all just a fictional story with actors playing made-up characters kicking each others' asses and disrespecting one another for our amusement. Tastelessness is kind of the name of the game.

[The Curmudgeon]

Different company, same subject. In, ahem, "rival" company TNA, the champion there (Bully Ray), walked through the crowd after a show and was caught on a video phone insulting a fan.

Here's the video, skip right up to 06:15 (it's hand-held footage and awful to sit and watch). Here's what was said;

Sit down, faggot. Yeah… What are you gonna do? You ain’t gonna do a damn thing. You got punked in your own frickin’ town. I’m punkin’ you out in front of .. I’m gonna say your daughter. You got punked! You invented fags, you fag. You should’ve did something already, you should’ve did something already, but you ain’t doing nothing’. I’m punking you in front of your hometown. You frickin’ queer.

So, keep in mind this isn't for TV. Show's over, and the guy is just standing there with his daughter. Obviously bad guy tactics are to annoy and anger the crowd, but this seemed pretty damn pointless and fucking moronic to boot ("you invented fags, you fag" - ziiiing!)

What's worse is that the company, the boss AND Bully Ray himself had to make official apologies to the fan and the "Gay and Lesbian Community." GLAAD (Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation) are now doing visits and talks with TNA, it's wrestlers and staff, on why these sorts of comments are not acceptable. Remember that bit in the American Office where a race and equality spokesperson turns up after Michael quotes Chris Rock's "blacks and niggers" joke? It'll probably be a bit like that, except with more muscles and tattoos.

So what do you think? Evil bad guy actions or dated offensive idiocy? (Going by TNA's actions afterwards, I'm thinking the latter).

[trashcanman]

The company need not apologize for the personal actions of an asshole that weren't part of the show. They should have just fined his ass and made him apologize publicly. And so help me, I must find an excuse to use "you invented fags, you fag" in a conversation. That shit has "4chan meme" written all over it.