"Selling out."

[The Curmudgeon]

There was an interview once with Noel Gallagher, who was discussing the White Stripes. He accused Jack White of "selling out" because he'd written a jingle for a new Coke commercial and that he'd sold out on his ideals and principals for money and he was now "out of the club."

That's a fair accusation, I suppose; the White Stripes at the time were pretty much the biggest band going, scoring number one albums and selling out tours all over the world. The fuck they doing Coke ads for?

But the "selling out" tag has been used at far less appropriate targets. I remember reading how Belle & Sebastian "sold out" by daring release singles that also appeared on albums (the fucking NERVE of those guys!) and how the Manic Street Preachers were corporate whores for signing to a major label. Surely if there's a message worth hearing, a platform that will actually give you the opportunity to let it be heard is better than some cash-strapped indie label that will only get you played on obscureindierecords.com? The fact the Manics DID sign to Sony and got records like the Holy Bible and Everything Must Go into millions of people's homes can surely only be a good thing?

So what do you think? What is "selling out?" Is it a redundant catchphrase spouted by right-on moral crusaders? Or is it a legitimate gripe? And do you have any examples of "selling out?"

For example...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWu0O2uS4tU

Or

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mSE-Iy_tFY

Thoughts?

[trashcanman]

Seeing that Lydon linked the term "filthy lucre" to his career multiple times, I think he gets a pass. Selling out was always his intention, but he didn't change who he was one iota to do it. To me, selling out means you compromise who you are and/or what you do just to make more money. For example, The Ramones' intention was always to become the biggest band in the world doing what they do. But aside from an occasional latter-day guitar solo they never significantly changed their music. They'd rather fail being The Ramones than succeed trying to be someone else.

The most legendary instance of selling out is Metallica, the long-haired thrash metal band who all changed their look to a short-haired and pierced alternative rock uniform at the same time and began making music that was almost unrecognizable as Metallica. It gets a little sketchier when you get bands like RATM. A band who preaches against capitalism and "the machine" being on a major label means they are actively supporting the thing they are raging against. The label almost always makes the vast majority of the money from album sales. The artists get the scraps and have to tour all year to make their share so all releasing an album on a major label really does is make you their slave in spirit. If you are willing to trade your freedom for money, that's your choice, but if you're posing as these crusaders of the people while representing and supporting the ones who bleed them dry for money, it's a bad fucking look. Thankfully, I just care about the music.

Bands like The Offspring and White Stripes had multiple inescapable rock radio hits while on an independent label so the whole "spreading the message" thing is kind of bullshit. It's the same excuse Al Gore used for flying a private jet and living a energy-extravagant life while preaching that everyone else should do this and that to conserve. To quote Game of Thrones: words are wind. It does;t matter ehat you preach if you don't practice it.

[Ben]

I've struggled to get into RATM for precisely that reason, Trashcanman. It'd be one thing if it was just a show or an act (like Slayer and their Satanic get-up), but Morello really believes he's some sort of Voice for the little guy. I mean, the man had the audacity to parade around with the Occupy movement without so much as a hint of irony that he IS the 1%. I wouldn't care much if I was already a fan, but as a casual listener I feel put-off by that shit.

Nonetheless, "selling out" is a term that gets thrown around too liberally these days. Landing a major label deal shouldn't be a big deal if for no other reason than it's really difficult for independent bands, and even small label bands, to do what they do and not go broke. I could rattle off a dozen rock bands I listen to who have to beg for fan donations just to keep making music.

To me, truly selling out is akin to selling your soul. It's sacrificing an integral part of your image or your sound (or both) for more widespread appeal and financial gain. I don't think a lot of the classic examples fit my criteria. Take KISS, for example. They've always been performers more than they've been a band. It was only natural for them to market themselves as a product. It got pretty nutty for a while, and I've never liked the band at all, but it's hard to call them sellouts when they've always been in the game for the money.

What do you guys think of non-music-related activities constituting "selling out?" E.g. Steven Tyler going on American Idol.

[trashcanman]

That was just horrible. I mean, Aerosmith has always been a mainstream rock band more or less, but after that Celine Dion-style song was so huge Tyler just lost his shit and went full pop star. That song with Santana was a horror, so was the solo song he released for the Space Battleship Yamato film in Japan, and I couldn't even finish the first single off their last album. I'd take Load and Reload all day over the shit Steven Tyler's been up to.

Another depressing one is the Dead Kennedys. One of my favorite bands of all time, but after they broke up, the members are just embarrassing to me. Biafra has mostly maintained his credibility, but acts like a butthurt child trying to smear his bandmates. And his bandmates...well they replaced him and changed the lyrics to MTV Get Off The Air, a song about corporate garbage being force-fed to music fans, and changed it to MP3 Get Off The Web, a song attacking fans diminishing corporate profits by pirating music. For a punk band, that is fucking unthinkable.