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Post by The Curmudgeon on Dec 19, 2015 22:10:59 GMT 2
I'm heading out in an hour or so to go see Star Wars. The plan is to go see it very late, in 3D, in torrential rain so hopefully the cinema will be as quiet as possible. I figured I'd open this thread now and I'll have seen it by the time anyone replies.
I'll let you know what I think when I get back. Fingers crossed. After the hat-trick of kicks in the balls that were the prequels that soured me on the whole damned franchise, this doesn't have to be "good." This NEEDS to be great.
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Post by Ben on Dec 21, 2015 1:53:46 GMT 2
I think I'm the only person in the entire U.S. who left the theater unimpressed and just a bit pissed off.
Seriously, could the new baddie have been anymore of a pussy-ass bitch?
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Post by The Curmudgeon on Dec 21, 2015 14:50:47 GMT 2
See, I really enjoyed it. I think it just FELT like a Star Wars film, something the prequels just never did. It had the humour, the action, the pacing all perfect for a Star Wars movie. Whether it holds up to repeated viewings (and let's be honest, it'll never be engrained in the soul like the original trilogy is) remains to be seen, but I left the cinema buzzing.
That being said..
Yes, I agree about the villain. Started off an absolute bad-ass (freezing the laser blast! DAMN!), wrecking shit when things don't go to plan ("was there anything else?") but how in the name of Christ is the most feared guy in the galaxy actually having a challenging lightsaber fight with a fucking STORMTROOPER who had never even picked up a lightsaber before?? I can - maybe - buy the girl (sorry, I don't know the names yet) fighting him because she's a Jedi and maybe that shit just comes naturally (although it sure didn't for Luke), but that bit really threw me. Mrs C tried to argue that he'd been shot by Chewie and was weakened but.. I dunno. I think he was far too beatable in the very first movie for my liking.
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Post by Ben on Dec 22, 2015 1:22:28 GMT 2
Exactly! A female friend of mine tried to rationalize all of that crap ("Well, as a storm trooper he was probably trained in hand-to-hand combat so he might have some sword skills even if he can't use the force!") but it's like you said, Luke didn't pick up a lightsaber 15 minutes after he first discovered the force and start wasting baddies. He couldn't even beat that stupid practice orb in the Millenium Falcon with any consistency. The whole "he was weakened" thing is garbage too because if the prequels taught us anything it's that you can light a Sith Lord on fire after chopping off three of his limbs and he'll still try to kill you. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I left the theater all tweaked because after starting out so promising, especially freezing the blaster in the opening scene, Kylo Ren ended up letting some newbie bitch waste his ass with ease. It's rather unbecoming of a super-villain to go down so easy.
Oh, and killing off that main character? Predictable to the extreme.
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Post by The Curmudgeon on Dec 22, 2015 1:32:34 GMT 2
We don't have to be vague here, Ben. The spoiler warning in the title is enough.
So I'm wondering what the idea behind the direct parallels to the original movie was. Important information in a droid (hell, he even bent down like Leia to put it in BB-9). The youngster seeing their mentor killed in front of them. Not to mention "shoot into the Death Star II."
Damn it Ben. Stop making me think and then not like this movie!
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Post by trashcanman on Dec 22, 2015 2:59:42 GMT 2
It was fucking awesome and life-affirming. Rei was shown to be a serious badass before she had any force powers whereas Kylo Ren seems like he relied on being the only motherfucker in the room with the force to win his fights. When he came up against somebody who kicked ass without the force her whole life and had just come into crazy raw power, he didn't know what to do. I actually like sympathetic and vulnerable villains (see Kingpin in Netflix's Daredevil). We've already seen the evil for evil's sake indomitable villains over and over, but to see a temperamental man-child who speaks like a hollowed-out sociopath and seems to be doing this almost against his own will adds a level of interest. I don't think we've seen all there is to see of this dude.
And no fucking way did you walk into the theater thinking "yup, they are totally going to murder the most beloved character in the series in his first appearance in 30+ year before our eyes", Ben. Come on. The parallel between the original film and this one are many and serve two purposes. One, it worked than and it works now. What better way to bring to mind what made the OT great than recalling the original story? Second, this is the beginning of a new cycle for both the series and the force. To quote BSG: all of this has happened before and all of this will happen again. So long as we don't find out that Kylo Ren is Rei's brother or some shit in the next film, I take no points away for the unoriginality.
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Post by Ben on Dec 22, 2015 6:34:39 GMT 2
I didn't walk into the theater thinking they'd kill Han (though I did figure they'd kill someone important), but there was no doubt in my mind as soon as Leia told him to bring their son home, or whatever. And even for those viewers who made it to the death scene itself wreathed in oblivion, it was so melodramatic with the bridge and the light and Kylo Ren's crocodile tears that the girl I went with covered her face about a minute in advance.
I don't know, guys. I wanted to like it. I even tempered my expectations a LOT. But I just didn't.
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Post by The Curmudgeon on Dec 22, 2015 13:58:50 GMT 2
Something I loved about it was the depth it added to the Star Wars universe. Seeing the Stormtroopers as actual people and taking orders and seeing how their minds work, the insides of Death Stars and TIE fighters.. it all just seemed REAL. And come on, who didn't laugh when Ren was wrecking shit in a strop and the two Stormtroopers are walking past and then think "uhh.. let's go the other way."
One minor criticism was the Order, who were just Nazi's that we've seen time and time again, as recently as the Hunger Games in fact. They even had a sort of Nazi salute. I know it's the greatest evil we've ever known and its engrained in our consciousness but I did kind of think it lacked some subtlety.
Mrs C actually argued that Kylo Ren is a novice playing dress-up, that he's determined to be like Darth Vader but just doesn't have the experience or skills to back it up - yet. So that kind of adds to your take on the character, Trash.
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Post by The Curmudgeon on Dec 22, 2015 14:00:35 GMT 2
Some asshole put a "HAN SOLO DIES" spoiler on Facebook, but I'm pretty sure it was a day before the film came out, so I just assumed it was a joke. When he started walking on that bridge and Ray (girls name?) was watching him I was like "uh-oh. This is Luke/Ben stuff here... noo.. Han Solo's going to DIE?"
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Post by trashcanman on Dec 22, 2015 19:58:36 GMT 2
I literally stayed off the internet for like 4 days before i watched it for exactly that reason and I still almost got gotten to. My wife said her 4 year old niece was facetiming with her and blurted it out the day before I saw it, but I was the other room so I barely dodged that bullet.
I was about 50/50 on whether they'd do it or not when he walked onto that bridge. Abrams is a corny dude at times, not-killing Kirk in Star Trek and all that. I didn't think he'd go through with it but I thought he wanted us to think he would so I was still shocked when it happens. I mean Han Solo? Fuuuuuuuck. In hindsight, it was obvious they were grooming Rey to be his replacement, but like I said, he's the most beloved character in the most beloved film series of all time and we haven't seen him since I was a small child. I'd expect it in the second or third movie, but not right off the bat like that.
Too bad you weren't into it, Ben. It felt like a breath of fresh air to me. I think Abrams' visual style is more impressive than anything Lucas ever did and they kept that mix of humor, epicness, weirdness, action, great characters, and populist appeal in balance pretty well, which obviously even Lucas had trouble maintaining beyond the OT.
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Post by Ben on Dec 24, 2015 21:43:41 GMT 2
I can still appreciate parts of it. I liked that they brought some humor into it, and not in the geared-for-small-children way the prequels did. No doubt it looked beautiful too, and there was certainly a sense of realism to it that was always missing from the prequels. You guys make fair points.
I liked how they did most of the stormtrooper battle scenes as well. The one in the ruins was fantastically complex with panning and rotating cameras and even some gnarly wound stuff on the bodies of fallen soldiers- a nice touch in comparison to the people who would just kind of fall over all the time in the OT.
My main criticism apart from Kylo Ren needing to take his bitchass home in a hurry (I still don't know how I'm supposed to believe the guy who allegedly wrecked Luke's entire jedi school and sent him running- no small feat considering Luke may be the most powerful jedi in the entire Star Wars universe- gets whipped up on by two lightsaber newbies) is that the parallels to the OT were way too frequent. It was a big rehash from start to finish. I get why they did that, and I hope now that it's out of the way they can make a more original installment, but I didn't appreciate it.
I'll watch it again when it finishes its theatrical run in 18 months. Maybe a second viewing will change my opinion.
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Post by trashcanman on Dec 24, 2015 23:01:40 GMT 2
I've heard like five people at work echo your disappointment with Kylo Ren so you are definitely not alone there. Plus, you've got to love this: www.craveonline.com/culture/937719-just-wouldnt-understand-great-emo-kylo-renI imagine if you can't enjoy a SW flick on the big screen repeat viewings might not help given that one of the best things about this one was the stylish shots that play especially well in a proper cinema. And it's not like it's one of those films that has these deep and complex metaphorical layers that you appreciate more with time like The Matrix or Blade Runner. I'm surprised this one is as divisive as it is, though -aside from the Metabombers complaining about SJW's because it has women and minorities in it, that is. One guy at work said he even liked the prequels more. I actually enjoyed the prequels, but they were in no way, shape, or form on the level of the OT. This was pretty close in my opinion. It's not perfect, but watching the old movies there are just as many criticisms you can level at them (wooden logs crushing armored war machines and the fact that the first film's plot was lifted from The Hidden Fortress, for instance). Basically, I just had a great damn time watching The Force Awakens and that's all I was asking for. I don't really need strict realism or scientific accuracy to enjoy a populist space fantasy extravaganza, but there's room for improvement. |
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Post by The Curmudgeon on Dec 28, 2015 11:42:46 GMT 2
I think the criticism of the new movie are valid in places, and like Trashy said there are loads of criticisms that can be aimed at the original trilogy as well. Interesting thing about older movies is that they came before the net so didn't get put under the immediate critical microscope that new films do. Just imagine, for example, if the 30's Frankenstein were released today. Absolute classic now, but can you imagine the outpouring of grief and rage online at what was done to the Monster? From a sound, reasoning being reflecting the doctor's soul, who could jump up fucking mountains to a shuffling, mindless UUUUUHHHH imbecile? The original Star Wars films are no different and if were released today would be held under the same scrutiny.
Anyway, it's all moot. It's now the quickest movie to hit a billion dollars so at least we can grateful its one of OUR movies that did well, whether we loved it or not, and not some fucking Twilight sequel or some shit.
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