Ever had any arguements about music?

[The Curmudgeon]

The recent jibes from Calum about my (awesome) music taste got me thinking - has anyone ever had any REAL arguements with anyone about music? Not net arguements (fun as they are) but have you ever had a heated debate about a band you hate or love?

For me, two major ones spring to mind. I used to know this stupid, stupid girl who, if it wasn't in the upper reaches of the charts, it didn't even register on her tunnel-visioned radar.

Anyway, she used to slate Prince, saying he looked like a girl, his songs were crap, he was a midget etc etc. She probably knew about one Prince song - Thriller, probably (boom, tish) and she adored the latest bargain-bin pop phony - the man in question being Peter Andre. Don't worry if you've never heard of him, he's not worth knowing about anyway. Rest assured - he sucked. I remember saying to her "you know, one day you and I are going to meet up and I'm going to bring up the fact you have a Peter Andre keyring and that he's The Best Musician Of All Time (ugh), and you will CRINGE. You will actually be embarressed at your music tastes. And me, I like Prince now, I'll like Prince then, I'll like Prince forever. And Prince will still be making music and Andre will be forgotten."

I'm paraphrasing, of course, but that was the basic premise of the arguement. It got laughed at and "never happen"'d. But about four years later I DID meet up with her. And the above happened EXACTLY as I said it would. Hah.

More recently, last year in fact, I met this fat, ignorant couple on holiday who we were sat next to in a bar. We got on alright at first but then the subject turned to music. They asked who my favourite was, and I said Prince, showing them my "symbol" tattoo. The woman laughed and said "Oh, I HATE Prince! He's AWFUL!" The guy agreed, "utter crap." Now, I don't know about you, but when you meet someone who has a fucking TATTOO of something on them - don't insult it. You might not like it, but if you don't want to appear to be a complete cock, nod and say nothing. What they did was just damned rude. I was already in attack mode when I found out THEIR favourite artist.

Elvis.

I rolled my eyes and chuckled. "Oh dear. You know what? The best thing he ever did was DIE. If Elvis had lived he would have been a JOKE. He was making the worst music of his career, he was making some of the worst movies EVER MADE - but he went and died. Instant legend."

We were all drunk, and this arguement went on for HOURS. I asked them, "who's the better songwriter - Prince or Elvis?" Instant knee-jerk reaction: "Elvis, of course!" I laughed right in the guys face - "Uh, that's nice - except Elvis didn't even WRITE any of his songs. He was the fifties equivalent of Pop Idol. Some guy writes a song and the puppet gets his strings pulled."

I actually thought I held my composure really well - they were both big heffers and I didn't use the word "fat" once.

Still, needless to say - I never set eyes on them the rest of the holiday. Big loss.


Anyway, that's mine - my Loyal Dwellers; opinionated, passionate, knowledgable people that you are - must have some too.

[Ben]

Well, I did have one very heated argument with a cousin of mine about Metallica (sadly, I was defending them) once upon a time. This was, of course, before I was rudely awakened by the far superior talent of other artists. I'd feel really stupid about it, but he, in turn, took to defending Blink-182, who, let's face it, have never written ANYTHING worth ANYONE'S time.

I still like (most) Metallica stuff... I just think the drummer is a complete dick, and they definitely shouldn't be allowed to release another piece of shit like their last album, something I used to defend as well (even on this site in the past, I think). The drummer (Lars) once said Bon Jovi represented everything wrong with the music scene today, when in fact, Metallica represents everything wrong with the music scene today. Old, has-been artists recording, copyrighting, releasing, (and in Metallica's case, suing anyone who downloads illegally) the first riff that they come up with, without putting thought or feeling into any of it. That's the "new" Metallica for you, no matter what anyone says.

[CW]

I dated someone who loved Coldplay (yuech) and one of my best pals adores Phil Collins (!). Another of my best mates likes U2, Bon Jovi and Guns n Roses. At uni one of my friends was an editor for Terrorizor mag and interviewed a lot of the horrible gothy metal bands I've just slagged off. And Curmy likes Slipknot. I tolerate him.

I'm pretty tolerant all in. I might draw the line at someone liking The Misfits or Cradle of Filth.

[The Curmudgeon]

Man, what IS it with this constant Slipknot abuse?! Calum, Calum, Calum - I have, like, 1500 CD's - THREE of them are Slipknot (and, hey - you gotta love the fact that Slipknot's "Iowa" beat Five's album to number one. Something very cool about that.) Still, having a girlfriend who likes Coldplay isn't a big surprise - who the hell else buys their stuff?

See, I don't MIND different opinions. Someone like Calum or Trashy or, well, anyone on here really - people who actually KNOW of what they speak - viva la difference.

A perfect example of the opposite - this guy was talking to me about Marilyn Manson and how much he sucked. "All his songs are about death and cutting your wrists. He fucking sucks." I nodded. "Name me ONE Marilyn Manson album and I will let you have that comment." Of course he couldn't. 'Nuff said.

[trashcanman]

I like to debate, but I always (try to) keep it friendly and have an open mind so heated arguments don't happen very often. I've taken on many a Manson fan in my time, however. EVERYTHING the man does is something he stole from another, superior artist. He stole Alice Cooper's act, Bowie's style, Faith No More's chorus from "Be Aggressive", NIN's fame (road Trent's coattails and all), Ministry's riffs, and that's just a few choice bits. It irks me when people talk about how intelligent and eloquent he is. People hear someone talking slowly and deliberately in a professor-esque monotone using multi-syllablic words and are so impressed they don't notice that he's always either stating the obvious or talking out of his ass. He's not all bad and he has written at least a few listenable songs (though every cover save "Sweet Dreams" has been beyond awful and even further beyond obvious), but the man is phenominally overrated and never fesses up to his thefts from other artists.

I have a coworker who is way into Pink and Gwen Stefani as punk icons who has never heard of Henry Rollins or Iggy Pop. He professes a hatred of Johnny Cash, calling him a "poser" since he never actually served time in prison but wrote songs about it. Talk about missing the point. I pointed out that Cash died in half of his songs yet still managed to continue breathing until recently and queried him as to whether he would hate Charlie Daniels if he found out that the Devil never really did go down to Georgia. I then told him that Johnny Cash is the original punk/country icon and had no precedent to pose as. No response: chalk that one up for me .

And don't get me started on Tallica. Please note that they no longer have the music to lay claim to a band name with "metal" in it, so Tallica they shall be called henceforth until they put out an album at least as awesome as "Ride the Lightning". It's bad enough Lars Ulrich is the worst drummer in history, but he's also in the running for biggest asshole. If you ever want to truly piss me off, just repeat these words: "Unforgiven Too is the best Metallica song EVER!!!!" "Saint Anger" might have had some good songs on it, but I'll never know because the drums sound like Lars is hitting a fucking aluminum trash can, the bass is awful, and the vocals and lyrics make me want to crack James Hetfield's head open and dig around his brain until I find the part that wrote their first five albums and throw out the rest. It's also worth noting that Dave Mustaine's tenure with the band produced very many of the band's best riffs right up to and including "Master of Puppets" and some say even later.

I dig Elvis though Curmudgeon's trap about Prince being a better songwriter was an 11 on an ownage scale of 1-10. To be fair, Elvis did cowrite some of his best songs -"All Shook Up" and "Heartbreak Hotel" to name two. Sure he stole the black man's music, wound up a washed-up loser, and all that other stuff, but the man was an incredible performer and singer in his prime. The tag line "before anyone did anything, Elvis did everything" is a funny one as well. It's true if you all the black performers that came before him, of course. American history has had a nasty habit of ignoring things until a white person popularizes them. Sad but true. Still, I'll always brighten up when I hear an Elvis song. Great stuff, musically speaking.


"I got something to say
I killed your baby today
And it doesnt matter much to me
As long as its dead
Well I got something to say
I raped your mother today
And it doesnt matter much to me
As long as she spread
Sweet lovely death
I am waiting for your breath
Come sweet death, one last caress"

THE MISFITS WERE FUCKING AWESOME!!!! And you know it's true because I used all caps there, see. Slipknot's "Iowa" is one of the greatest metal albums ever (yeah, I said it!), and just to be nice and give y'all some mud to sling I'll admit to having a self-hating kind of weakness to Blink 182's brand of Kidz Bop "punk".

[Ben]

Well Trashcanman, I agreed with just about everything in that post until the last sentence. Blink-182? Seriously?

Tallica has been iffy at best ever since the Black Album. And lo and behold, St. Anger. I believe those WERE aluminum trash cans Lars was using, not to mention his snare was horribly out of tune throughout the album. I wouldn't say the bass was horrible. More like nonexistent. The worst part was that they had to tune everything down so James could sing to it, but he wasn't even
able to. Screeching and yelling (and whatever it is he does on the track Purify) doesn't qualify as vocals, at least not for Metallica. Oops, I mean Tallica.

After they used all of Cliff Burton's and (stole all of) Dave Mustaine's material they folded like a cheap paper tent. Kill Em All, best thrash album ever? Mustaine and Cliff accounted for around 75% of everything on there.

I've never been a Manson fan. I discovered Cooper first, so I guess Manson's stuff never had a chance with me after that. I remember reading an interview with Cooper once, and they asked him what he thought of Marilyn Manson. His answer: "Marilyn, I AM YOUR FATHER!"

[The Curmudgeon]

My theory on Manson is this: whether you like him or not - take a look at the popular rock scene from the last ten years. We've had an idiot in a red baseball cap and big shorts mugging to the camera, we've had comedy rock pricks like Bowling For Soup, we've had poe-faced loser rock like Staind and we've had generic, cut and paste bands that have fuck all to say.

Then there's Manson. Maybe he has cribbed from others (but who hasn't?) but here's a guy who's doing something NO-ONE else is doing right now and scaring the utter shit out of the church and the media at the same time. Yeah, so he's a more cuddly figure now, but there was a time when Marilyn Manson really was The Man That You Fear. I've always dug that.

Oh, and I don't actually mind Elvis at all, it was the sheer moronic stubborness and blinkered, ignorant attitude that pissed me off.

[trashcanman]

I will (shamefully) admit to my pop-punk habit and I will take Manson over 90+% of the POPULAR rock of the past decade, but "popular" is the operative word there. The man has his own fucking PERFUME and beauty product line! Anti-establishment my ass. news.softpedia.com/news/Marlyn-Manson-Launches-Perfume-10241.shtml
All that's left for him is to marry Kevin Federline, check into rehab, have his exposed genitals photographed as he exits a car, and slap his own mother. It's fun to terrify the church-going lot, but nowadays that's like shooting fish in a barrel. Blackie Lawless called and he wants his costume back.