Are we racist to disagree with Obama?

[mackshere]

Hopefully as a country we are passed that. But B.O.'s approval rating is dropping fast. I voted for the man, mainly because he can talk a good game. But now I'm having second thoughts.

This is from his recent speech--
OBAMA: As a student of history, I also know civilization's debt to Islam. It was Islam at places like Al-Azhar that carried the light of learning through so many centuries, paving the way for Europe's renaissance and enlightenment. It was innovation in Muslim communities that developed the order of algebra, our magnetic compass and tools of navigation, our mastery of pens and printing, our understanding of how disease spreads and how it could be healed. Islamic culture has given us majestic arches and soaring spires, timeless poetry and cherished music, elegant calligraphy, and places of peaceful contemplation -- and throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality.

This sound fishy to anybody? Algebra developed by the Muslims? I thought it was the English, but actually it probably dates back further than that. I doubt they played a part in its origins.
The compass? Chinese I believe.
Pens? Printing? Healing diseases? Maybe, but I seriously doubt it.
Majestic arches & spires seem more Roman-ish.
Calligraphy? Probably Japan.
MUSIC?!?!!? Are they even allowed to listen to music?
And their religious tolerance has always been so profound, of course.

I realize he's trying to build relations and end hostilities. But could anyone take this seriously? And is it smart to keep apologizing for past U.S. "mistakes"?

Ok, I'm done. Any thoughts on this matter? Sorry I didn't start a post like "Greatest rack in showbiz?" but this is what's on my mind...

[The Curmudgeon]

I look forward to the Rack question.

Anyway, I've moved this from the Time Wasters section (really Mackshere, you sell yourself short) to here. And, well, Obama's spin doctor's probably weren't expecting anyone to critique that speech so much, 'cos it would probably take a heck of a lot of in-depth study to prove him wrong. I think the general "...... I'll take your word on that one" consensus was hoped for.

I think this campaign of his will only get the anti-Obama brigade even more worked up. Trashcanman posted a video a few months back of some redneck racist morons calling Obama a "terrorist." Why? "Look at his name" was pretty much the only evidence they had. Now, with this "let's make peace with the Muslims" bit, I think they'll think they've been proven right.

Myself? Hey - all power to him. Anything that promotes.. what's that word again.. peace? can, surely, only be a good thing.

[trashcanman]

You are a filthy bigot for ever questioning a half-black man. Honky-ass cracker. Somebody oughtta lynch you. I'm all for acknowledging the sins of our government so God bless him for that. We can't harp on Turkey for pretending they didn't try to annihilate an entire race and then act like we haven't spent decades turning the Middle East into a hellhole and wondering why they're pissed at us. As for crediting all that stuff to Islamic society? I just don't give a crap. It's ass-kissing for sure, but we've had enough of the GOP's Team America bullshit so I have no issues with reaching out to our perceived enemies in hope of mutual respect and peace. If it fails, at least he tried. My issue with him is that he promised change and then continued pouring our money into corporate America just like Bush while using the economy as an excuse. He needs to get his shit together here before he gets all hot and heavy with the rest of the world. I like that Obama doesn't care a wit about the bigots who call him a terrorist. He does what he wants to do and I respect that. As long as what he wants to do isn't war and taxes. I know you know better then to hate on another race or religion so I won't lecture you on that, Mackshere, but the tone of your post indicates hostility towards Muslims. Just remember not to confuse the extremist minority with the vast majority. I think Obama has the right attitude and he's made some poor decisions, but if I haven't turned on him yet you know he can't have screwed up too much. I'm sure as hell ready to pounce, though. I just hope he doesn't give me any more reasons.

[mackshere]

I'm still learning how to navigate here in The Fortress. I brought up this topic at work, but nobody wanted to step up.
Obama does seem fearless, and I appreciate his efforts. But I am skeptical of the direction. More gov't, more problems. People are already talking about boycotting GM.
Change can be bad. We seem to be continually inching away from the principles our forefathers built this great nation on. I've been reading about Federalism lately, and that just seems to make sense.
I say that even though I consider myself Democratic--hell, I work in a union.
Ok, I'm done for now....oh, I didn't mean to hate on the Mus

[Benjamin Haines]

It's a little-known fact in the western world that Islamic civilization in the east saw tremendous developments in medicine, architecture, art and technology from around the 600s to about the 1200s. It was a stark contrast to the Dark Ages of western Europe at that time and in the centuries that followed in which Christian-dominated society put a major capper on knowledge and development. Islamic cultures as early as the 9th and 10th centuries had developed all kinds of medicinal drugs, while medieval Europeans in the 1300s didn't even figure out that bacteria can spread through the air and through physical contact, hence why so many people believed they could cut open their arms to bleed out the bubonic plague and had no problem kissing their infected loved ones. That's not to say that Europe hasn't contributed tremendously to global scientific and artistic development (that would begin with the Renaissance), but for many centuries, Islamic cultures were far and away ahead of the curve. What ended up tearing their civilization apart and ultimately setting them back were the Crusades initiated by European rulers. Now it's the western world that's the leader in scientific development and Islamic nations, ironically enough, seem to be the ones that have fallen behind.

Wikipedia is never a prime resource but this page seems to cover things pretty solidly. Check it out: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

[mackshere]

Thanks Ben, I wasn't giving enough credit it seems.

[trashcanman]

Yeah, I know. I do think we should socialize health care, but as far as the government running other businesses that strikes me a no-no. I could personally care less about our forefathers. They built this great nation on principles, sure, but also on the backs of slaves. There's just something untrustworthy about men who declare that all were created equal unless they aren't white and male.

[countorlok22]

Allow me to answer this question as quickly as I can, after all Shakespeare did say that, "brevity is the soul of wit."... so let's cut the bullshit, stop pussyfooting around, and just dive in.

Is it racist to disagree with Obama because he's black? Yes.
Is it racist to disagree with Obama because he's the president? No.
Is it racist to disagree with Obama because he's wrong? Big NO.
Anyhow, much of the points that you bring up are valid, however, Islam was a huge contributor to the developing arts and sciences back in the early centuries A.D. ... but as always, glorifying someone who's being persecuted only gives them a savior complex (see the Bible and the whole ludicrous Jesus myth for further examples) and ultimately turns them into vile dictators (see any freedom fighter who got a real taste of power and then turned into a tyrant).

[Ben]

I didn't think much of the speech. Just a bunch of blubbering, in my opinion.

[trashcanman]

I think it's a little late to worry about dictators in the Middle East. We installed several of them. The other dictators overthrew the dictators we installed. Islamic societies contributions x number of centuries ago means nothing today when a woman who is seen speaking to the wrong boy can be raped and stoned to death by her own brothers with no repercussions. Am I the only one who didn't bother to watch Obama's speech here? Talky time is over for me; he needs to show me something.

[countorlok22]

Agreed. But he has made some very needed changes. Look at Gitmo and the changes of policy when it comes to nuclear weapons. Now, I realize that those changes are kind of no-brainers, but considering our last president never used his (brain, that is), at least we're, as a nation, regaining some common sense.
As for your statement about the whole gang-rape scenario, though such occurrences are frequent, they are also sensationalized in the media and thus give off a very poor and unfair depiction of Islamic men. Not everyone is an abusive, womanizing, terrorist. Though, that statement could be used to describe much of the Christian Right as well!

[trashcanman]

Yeah, but if that happened over here they'd at least put the dudes in prison. Over there, some view them as heroes and the government usually leaves them alone. That should not be acceptable to anybody. It may be a relatively small amount of people carrying this shit out, but it's still way too much.

[countorlok22]

True. But the same could be said over here. I mean look at how many celebrities and celebrity-politicians get away with. I could list examples, but you're already familiar with most of them.