|
|
Post by trashcanman on Sept 3, 2009 19:45:36 GMT 2
So while perusing MMA news I came across this story: forums.mmanews.com/general-mma-forum/37831-m-1-fighters-tattoos-causing-some-controversy.htmlThis Finnish fighter has a bunch of racist tats so the organization he fights for makes him wear patches over them. But they came off during the fight right in front of the cameras and the organization is wondering if they want a dude with swastikas and other racist shit all over him representing their company. Seems fairly cut-and-dry. The guy lies and says it was from when he was young and crazy or whatever, yet he hasn't covered them up permanently or had them removed. Freedom of speech is well and good, but this is business. You wouldn't hire somebody to publicly represent your business on television if they had that kind of shit on display. I'd say fire the guy or have him get the tats removed or covered permanently. But what really surprised me was on that on the message board there are all sorts of comments supporting the guy's display of "white pride" and insisting it's not racist to have pride in your race. I disagree. "Born to Hate" (one of his bigger tats) seems like it has little to do with self-esteem. And indeed the posters mention prominent UFC fighter Cain Velasquez's "Brown Pride" tattoo as evidence of a double-standard and they are not entirely wrong. Truth be told there is a racist element to Hispanic street gangs stemming from conflicts in American prisons, but the difference is White Pride advocates seek out and harm people of different races actively. Brown Pride has more of a "live and let live" approach where if you don't look for trouble you usually won't get it. But to me any sort of "pride" based on the color of your skin is indeed racism and here's why. Pride in what you are intrinsically implies that you feel that fact makes you somehow superior to anyone who cannot say the same. You are proud of winning a competition, you are proud of getting a promotion, you are usually proud of something that you feel puts you above and beyond the other people around you in some way. Racial pride is no different and always leads to the thought that anything that is not of your race is inferior. Mexicans often enthusiastically refer to themselves as "La Raza" which translates to "The Race". Now if they are THE race, what the hell is everyone else? It's little different from Hitler declaring Aryans to be the "Master Race". But again, it always seems to be white people who feel the need to aggressively attack other races to prove their point. So the question remains: is it okay to let a "Brown Pride" tattoo slide but come down on a guy with visible Aryan Nation symbols? In this case I'm saying yes simply because of the fact that one Hispanic "Pride" tattoo is different from the multiple flagrant displays of racism on a white dude with swastikas, viking imagery, "Born to Hate", AND "White Pride" tattooed all over him. Brown Pride is an element found in street and prison gangs who primarily fight amongst themselves, but White Pride has a history of blatant terrorism. Throw the fucker out. |
|
|
|
Post by Ben on Sept 4, 2009 1:32:29 GMT 2
The organization he fights for must be pretty stupid to think the patches were never going to come off.
That out of the way, I say treat them both the same. That's what the minorities want, right? Equal treatment for all. Granted, the white dude is covered in them, whereas Cain only has one (I think), but the principle is the same. Racism is racism. There is no "reverse racism," it's just racism. My favorite are the black guys with the noose tattoos that say "never forget" underneath. Yes, let's hold a grudge against every white person alive for events they had no control over...
Frankly, I'm sick of hearing minorities bitch about white people. Whenever something goes wrong someone has to pull the race card and start the whole argument about what's racist and what isn't. Maybe I'd give a shit if there wasn't a double standard, but it's gotten to be ridiculous. Some people get offended when a white person so much as says "black" instead of "African American" or "Mexican" instead of "Spanish," yet these same people don't bother saying Caucasian, or European American (or whatever) in reference to a white person. They say "white." It's all ridiculous and completely idiotic.
In general, I just think the term "racism" is widely overused and bastardized by people who are crying over nothing.
|
|
|
|
Post by trashcanman on Sept 4, 2009 2:45:21 GMT 2
Actually, Mexicans where I live actually wear shirts that explain that they are technically not Spanish, Hispanic, or anything but Mexican, who are considered indigenous. They actually get annoyed when politically correct terminology is used. Please tell me it's a regional thing and you aren't making that stuff up. White people in this country have enjoyed a wealth of privilege that others have not and they have used that privilege to abuse minorities for centuries. It's history, it's fact, and it sticks in some people's craw. It doesn't exactly make a lot of sense to get defensive about it. "Never forget" is based on a simple premise: if it happened before it can happen again and we need to be aware of that fact before it does. And in this case, it has happened in a lot of people's lifetimes. A lot. I'm not sure how watching friends and family strung up for being the wrong color affects one, but if all they did was get a tattoo, I'd say they are handling it all right. Does it bug you when Jewish people say "never forget" about the Holocaust? You can't accuse somebody of a double standard while enacting some of your own, Ben. That sort of attitude is what makes people think you are a racist, whether it is conscious or not. It will never be a good look for a white dude to cry about how abused he is by minorities. History just isn't on your side there. If you want to defend Nazis, it's a free country, but you can't do it and play the victim at the same time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ben on Sept 4, 2009 21:42:01 GMT 2
No offense, Trashcanman, but your post is exactly what I'm talking about. If I so much as open my mouth against someone of a different color the immediate backlash is "He's a racist!" no matter what I might be saying. As a white person, I'm not allowed to ask for equality.
I assure you, I'm not making this up. People in minorities get special privileges all the time. Every college I've looked at so far has the minority scholarship (depending on how smart you are, and how not-white you are, you could go to college for free!). When McAllister College visited my high school last year their reps even asked the white kids not to attend their presentation. How fucked up is that?
This sort of thing is only accepted because of one thing: history. Yeah, my ancestors weren't lynched for the color of their skin, but as German immigrants in the U.S. they encountered plenty of racism. No one talks about that though, because they were WHITE. After all, it's ok to discriminate against white people.
I haven't lynched anybody. I don't drive around yelling "nigger" out my window at black people. On a personal level, I don't treat anyone differently based on color, nor do I encounter any hate towards me for being white. So why is it that we're treated differently by the generation in power? The sooner they die, the better. It's their generation that's keeping racism alive, not mine.
|
|
|
|
Post by trashcanman on Sept 5, 2009 6:42:42 GMT 2
Well put. I'm with you on the death of the generation prior. That'll be a happy day in racial relations. All immigrants have been discriminated against, but not systematically enslaved, terrorized, and lynched. "Minutemen" are actually killing Mexicans that try to cross the border RIGHT NOW. That sort of thing hardly the same as being called a derogatory name or not getting a job because you are from Germany or wherever. You really think that gossip deserves it's own chapter in the history books just because they were white? History records atrocities and you want equal time to compare genocide to being called mean names? That's your idea of equality? Really? That's what you've got, Ben? The problem isn't me and the people who point these things out. The problem is people with no perspective on history (which is reality even if you didn't witness it) who want to believe that they have had it harder then anybody else no matter what because that's what makes them feel good about themselves. But being born in violence and poverty is harder then relative wealth and privilege. Sorry. They complain about being beaten, shot, and starved and you are going on about scholarships. That's probably the last word on racism right there. I'd LOVE to know how that idiot got away with telling white people not to attend that school presentation. Where do you live that people can get away with saying that in public? That shit is ridiculous and that dude should not have a job.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ben on Sept 8, 2009 6:16:23 GMT 2
Don't get me wrong, Trashcanman. We're on the same page when it comes to REAL racism. As far as beatings and murder go (anti-gay violence comes to mind), the victims have my utmost sympathy, and I haven't claimed racism against white people compares to that.
My complaint is with the people who cry "racism" over the smallest, insignificant shit. Remember that whole load of shit with Don Imus a couple years ago? Who fucking cares? Every day there's some garbage like that that makes it into the news and creates a hell of a fuss, and it's all over NOTHING.
My point isn't that white people have it bad; it's that when people get so nit-picky over racism, and being politically correct, and going out of their way not to offend anyone, then white people could turn it around by making just as big a fuss over the same nothing (as I demonstrated in my previous post).
|
|
|
|
Post by trashcanman on Sept 9, 2009 6:41:59 GMT 2
True, true. The Imus thing pissed me of because it was just completely uncalled-for. Calling black girls nappy-headed hos is like calling a Jewish person a hook-nosed weasel. It's just a dick move and in my company (if I had one)that shit wouldn't fly. But should it be a national incident? You're right: we have more important shit to worry about then some old dude on the radio acting like an asshole or even a Nazi cage fighter.
|
|
mackshere
All Messed Up
like a virgin
Posts: 129
|
Post by mackshere on Sept 9, 2009 17:15:48 GMT 2
Great topic guys. I work at a place with very diverse ethnic backgrounds, and we are all close enough to talk openly about race matters, which is cool. I mentioned to some of the black, err African American, or dark skinned type people that I am tired of Obama getting praised as the first black president. His mom is white! Should the white race get half the credit(or blame) for his actions? The bros told me one drop of black makes you all black. Is that fair? People do care about the color of skin, for some fucked up reason.
I don't think racial pride is a bad thing. I am glad every Super Bowl is won by a white QB. Black people being proud of their dominance in sports is perfectly ok in my book. I remember going to a "black" club for a poetry reading session. The fucking DJ skipped over my name (I am a white dude after all) and only let the black people read their poems. This pissed me off, and I asked him about it. He said "we had a nice little vibe going and I didn't want to ruin that." Call it reverse racism if you want, I call it bullshit.
I say let the racist idiot fight. He just looks stupid with the hate advertisements.
|
|
mackshere
All Messed Up
like a virgin
Posts: 129
|
Post by mackshere on Sept 9, 2009 17:24:52 GMT 2
Great topic guys. I work at a place with very diverse ethnic backgrounds, and we are all close enough to talk openly about race matters, which is cool. I mentioned to some of the black, err African American, or dark skinned type people that I am tired of Obama getting praised as the first black president. His mom is white! Should the white race get half the credit(or blame) for his actions? The bros told me one drop of black makes you all black. Is that fair? People do care about the color of skin, for some fucked up reason.
I don't think racial pride is a bad thing. I am glad every Super Bowl is won by a white QB. Black people being proud of their dominance in sports is perfectly ok in my book. I remember going to a "black" club for a poetry reading session. The fucking DJ skipped over my name (I am a white dude after all) and only let the black people read their poems. This pissed me off, and I asked him about it. He said "we had a nice little vibe going and I didn't want to ruin that." Call it reverse racism if you want, I call it bullshit.
I say let the racist idiot fight. He just looks stupid with the hate advertisements.
|
|
|
|
Post by trashcanman on Sept 10, 2009 2:45:45 GMT 2
There is no reverse racism (which implies that general racism comes from whites); it's all bullshit. At least the guy was honest with you, I'll give him that. Now you know not to patronize that fucked-up establishment. And if having one drop of blood makes you black, what if you get a transfusion? People say some stupid shit. Obama is only half of a black president. What he is is the first MINORITY president. I say let the racist idiot fight. He just looks stupid with the hate advertisements. When you put it like that, it's pretty hard to argue. It'd be pretty satisfying seeing a black dude beat his ass knowing what it would do to his little worldview. |
|
|
|
Post by trashcanman on Sept 10, 2009 2:46:07 GMT 2
There is no reverse racism (which implies that general racism comes from whites); it's all bullshit. At least the guy was honest with you, I'll give him that. Now you know not to patronize that fucked-up establishment. And if having one drop of blood makes you black, what if you get a transfusion? People say some stupid shit. Obama is only half of a black president. What he is is the first MINORITY president. I say let the racist idiot fight. He just looks stupid with the hate advertisements. When you put it like that, it's pretty hard to argue. It'd be pretty satisfying seeing a black dude beat his ass knowing what it would do to his little worldview. |
|
|
|
Post by Ben on Sept 10, 2009 5:25:21 GMT 2
True, true. The Imus thing pissed me of because it was just completely uncalled-for. Calling black girls nappy-headed hos is like calling a Jewish person a hook-nosed weasel. It's just a dick move and in my company (if I had one)that shit wouldn't fly. But should it be a national incident? You're right: we have more important shit to worry about then some old dude on the radio acting like an asshole or even a Nazi cage fighter. Exactly. As for the UFC dude, I like how mackshere put it. |
|
mackshere
All Messed Up
like a virgin
Posts: 129
|
Post by mackshere on Sept 10, 2009 7:20:27 GMT 2
He was kidding about the drop of black blood part. As far as that club goes, I thought about continuing to go and trying to get on the mike, with delusions of being able to dissolve racial walls and earning my ghetto pass. This big Jamaican dude at work even said he'd roll with me to give me some street cred or whatever. But I just said fuck it, never went back.
|
|
