Two opinions of Batman..

[The Curmudgeon]

From two very different sources.

The first, about the Batman movie franchise, specifically the Joker. WWE wrestler and internet darling Chris Jericho mused that, if Heath Ledger had lived and appeared in a sequel, that the Joker would have become a GOOD GUY in the third Batman movie. He commented that when villains become popular they inevitably turn good (Hannibal Lector, Jason Vorhees, Darth Vader - I could add Godzilla to that mix I guess). What do you think?

And now, an opinion from Mrs Curmudgeon. I've wiped all the data from Batman: Arkham Asylum so I can play it all over again, and so I sit on the couch playing that and she sits on the other side like some crazed professor with THREE Pokemon books and THREE Ds's round her. She doesn't know much about the DC Universe (fairly clued up on Marvel), and she says that there shouldn't be "monsters" or "super villains" in Batman's rogues gallery. Guys like the Joker and the Riddler are fine, but she watched me fighting Killer Croc and she thought it was stupid. "He's not a super hero. He's a detective. He's just a guy. There's no way he could ever beat anyone like that. People like that shouldn't even be in his comics. The idea of Batman himself is possible, but things like that are impossible."

There. Two big verdicts on the Dark Knight. Agree or disagree?

[trashcanman]

Joker has never ever been a good guy (barring alternate realities) and he never would be. He could be used like Lecter as an evil bastard with a wicked mind that helps the good guys for his own purpose, but he will still bite a motherfucker in the face first chance he gets. It's been about 70 years since The Joker debuted and I don't believe he's ever been turned good yet. Jericho mistakes noticing an entertainment cliche that every moron is aware of for insight on a character he seems to know nothing about. It's also cliche for good guys to turn bad. However, I don't predict Nolan turning Bruce Wayne into a supervillain in the next film.

Your wife's opinion is a matter of personal preference and a respectable one. However, Batman resides in the DC Universe and is a charter member of the Justice League. Kind of hard for him to get around taking on the occasional metahuman. Also, part of his appeal is that he is a non-superpowered human in a world chock-full of superpowers and still manages to dominate it through sheer cunning and force of will. The guy is so driven and ahead of the game that he creates weapons to take down his own cosmically-powered friends just in case he has to. That is a true hardass. He is a detective. The world's greatest, I hear. He detects his opponents' weaknesses (be they physical or psychological) and exploits them in order to change their advantage to a disadvantage. He takes down superpowered foes all the time this way. He's pwned Superman (who he knows will not use lethal force...a weakness) with kryptonite-which he always has on his person, an alternate universe Wonder Woman who arrogantly inhaled all of the gas from a smoke bomb he used to obscure her vision that turned out to be anesthetic knockout gas, has taken advantage of Martian Manhunter's pyrophobia, and pretty generally terrorizes people more powerful than him on a regular basis, Superman included. That said, I kind of like him better as a street level vigilante too.

[The Curmudgeon]

That pretty much covers it, really. Batman and Superman have joined forces for decades, too. That's not a new thing. Bats has never just been kept to the Gotham line of crooks, mobsters and lunatics. I get what she's saying, and I too prefer when he's in "his element" but it's just not the way it works.

Same with Spidey, though. I'm currently going through my entire run of Astonishing Spider-Man comics, reading them one by one (been collecting them since issue one in 1995, so it'll take me a while) and they are SO much better when it's.. relatable. Believeable. A guy who puts on a mask and flies around on a glider or a guy who has metal arms attached to him isn't totally possible but you can still believe it happens, especially when the writing is as grounded and realistic as the more modern comics are. It's when he starts hanging with Dr Strange and it's all mystic and magic, or he's with the FF and he's flipping through dimensions. Like Batman, Spider-Man is at his best when he's in his own turf.

[trashcanman]

Yeah, I've got to agree with that. Crossovers are good times, but some characters are just better with smaller stories.